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Deja Thoris
Invicta.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.04.27 09:56:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Deja Thoris on 27/04/2010 09:56:52
Intersting thread.
Let me say (to the howls of derision from my alliance mates and viper) that I think supercarriers are overpowered at the moment. However, the only thing I would reduce is the damage. The current output is absolutely fearsome. With a few on field remote reps from a carrier become useless since you can hardly lock and cycle before a carrier pops. The ewar immunity and good buffer should (imo) stay since the top ships in the game should be a worthy trophy.
However, before this turns into a balance discussion I'll throw my opinion into the pot. Take it or leave it, but know that I have orchastrated and executed no small number of mothership and supercarrier kills in lowsec. I also flew a nyx in its incarnation as a mothership. I do at least have a clue what I'm talking about.
The OP is basically moaning about being ganked by overwhelming force. Just like his alliance does day in and out to the members of the State War Academy and Center for Advanced Studies in their fearsome hull tanked myrmidions, kestrels and mighty badgers. Same thing goes when you are on the receiving end, its just a question of scale. And this goes for Bellum "I fight outnumbered too" Eternus. You sit in your little lowsec enclave and scout every surrounding gate just incase a ship capable of posing danger comes so you can play the old dock and smack routine. You all mastered the art of riskless ganking so you are a bit disturbed by victims adapting and suddenly you have become the prey.
You fit nice bling because its a pretty low risk venture, after all you have all the gates scouted...right? Now, suddenly, theres a bit of risk involved. What to do? Conventional scouts don't quite cut it since the caps may be far away. You could drop a sensor booster and fit a ship scanner to check for a cyno but that would mean your chance of locking those pesky bantams is reduced. There may also be a cloaked recon around or even a little kessie waiting to warp in. You could whine about it on the forums; or: You could cultivate relations with people who dislike said sc pilots or just plain people who thirst for a killmail and lay a trap. Outlandish idea I know. Theres plenty of entities around who would jump at the chance to kill supercarriers and baiting em out should be easy since their use is so prevalent that they are absolutely RUINING lowsec ganking errr pvp.
I said it in the assembly hall thread about the mobile cyno jammer, you reap what you sow. People adapted and they bypassed your scouts. You can't even pwn **** in your archon by station hugging now because a small handful of supercarriers can kill you before you deagg. (And to be fair, even before the advent of sc's we killed an inordinate number of your caps with sensor boosted dreads designed to end the life of station hugging caps within the required cooldown period) You brought it on yourself with your playstyle and now people have adapted. (And having said this the last cap of Bellums alliance we killed I decided to subcap it and you self destructed because we lacked the damge required to kill you in the requisite time) Perhaps instead of petitioning the forum population you should adjust your playstyle and accept that you are a small fish in a very large pond. Hell, CH and others know that there are entities that can smite their supercap force with little effort so we try to play it smart. I think we all know that our pixels will explode one day, when that day comes you won't see us running to the forums trying to garner sympathy and game changes.
Me, if two people kept dropping me in supercarriers I'd have such a raging hard-on because I'd know that their losses would soon be adorning my killboard. But I guess it's easier to play the victim and complain that in a multi player game I may have leet pvp skills and SP but somehow its beyond me to group together with other like minded individuals ...
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Deja Thoris
Invicta.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.04.27 10:00:00 -
[2]
Wall of text continues!
...individuals with the goal of ending the life of a couple of ships.
tl;dr? People adapted, you became predictable, farmable loot pinatas, your turn to adapt.
Anyways, thats my take on it from the other side of the coin so to speak.
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Deja Thoris
Invicta.
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2010.04.27 22:46:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Liang Nuren
Like I said - the biggest problem is the lack of ways of interdicting them combined with their what the **** absurd DPS. Keep supercaps in 0.0 where they belong, IMO... but I will settle for them simply not being more powerful in lowsec than in 0.0. Neither of these two strike me as addressing the concern of them being more powerful. Maybe if you wanted to make them completely unable to RECEIVE RR in low sec... ?
-Liang
A ship class was designed to fill just the niche you mentioned, the hic. I've not had trouble getting my hic or those of my friends onto supercarriers whether its through a jump gate, titan portal, even in some cases cloaking the damn thing up all day waiting to pounce. Yes, it requires effort, something I alluded to when I mentioned that these are the biggest and baddest ships in eve and should be harder to catch than the average raven.
I don't think they are more powerful in lowsec, true the methods of holding it down are reduced but then again, they can't hide under cyno jammers. It's give and take. I don't think lack of remote reps is a concern for supercarriers in lowsec either. If they get to the point where they need that rr then chances are they are toast. It would just be an inconvenice to refit em to self rep stupid amounts of armor or alternatively to jump em to 0.0 to get remote repped.
All you are really proving to me is its easier to propose poorly thought out changes then to come up with a solid plan to kill one.
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Deja Thoris
Invicta.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.04.27 23:16:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Deja Thoris
All you are really proving to me is its easier to propose poorly thought out changes then to come up with a solid plan to kill one.
Deja-
Just to clarify my position (and not speaking for Liang):
I don't think killing *one* SC in lowsec is an issue. At least not for me personally. That's doable. Very much so. It's trying to complete a kill when there are 4-6 SCs on the field all spider tanking that it gets nearly impossible to do without a *massive* increase in numbers and an almost guaranteed requirement of your own SCs as well.
Supercarriers don't spider tank each other. Most fit maximum drone control units and a cloak. 20% extra damage from 4 drone controls. Theres no better way to make sure you don't need rr then to kill off the incoming damage. I agree more than 2 becomes a handful but CCP have set the bar by allowing such proliferation so I don't know what we can do but live within the rules they've set or ask for well considered changes, not knee jerk reactions. Personally I think the damage they put out is too high, it used to be too low. I'm sure theres a golden middle somewhere.
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Deja Thoris
Invicta.
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2010.04.28 23:20:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Hesperius
Super carriers by nature (see sov restrictions on construction) were not designed to be low sec toys.
Super carrier pilots in low sec are the ones who are currently being saved by CCP. I'm sure the ones being so vocal here are the ones who's stomach goes into a knot thinking of all the times they would have lost their SC had an interceptor been able to tackle them in low sec.
I fail to see how a restriction on where you can build it flows through to where you can use it? Thats your interpretation and it's a pretty liberal one at that. By your logic could we infer that they are only allowed to operate in your sov space since it took sov to build them?
Once again (third time in this thread) most super carriers and super capitals operate under cynojammers or with blobs limiting the risk to them somewhat. Now BLAST proved today thats not foolproof but I'd wager supers are more safe operating in 0.0 than lowsec.
Anyway, its clear we disagree and thats fine. It's also clear we have a difference in additude. When titans could dd in lowsec I came up with a plan to bait and kill one. It was cunning and awesome. That very same day they removed lowsec dd's and if I'm honest it probably saved a dude his titan. You and your ilk would have been here crying for CCP to nerf it because its a threat and not an opportunity.
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